Max

I am a medieval historian, a fact that probably was rooted in my love for Ars Magica since the second edition. I am currently studying the Mythic Europe Chapter of the Manuscriupt docs and I would really like to point out a few things for discussion - and possible corrections. a) "democracy was generally regarded as an evil custom" - Yes and no. Actually (and not known to many), western democracy is deeply rooted in medieval participation patterns. Communities are generally self-governed for the most part, so there is a local elite and certain types of participation amongst the people. This is best known in cities where you have a city council, and also in villiges where you have a beadle and other "officials". In the 13th century, this is still in a fledgling state (it becomes very predominant in the 14th century), and it is no real democracy, of course (burgers/masters might appoint some of the offices in a town, in 13th century a noble/patrician/something city elite will probably be in charge). Nevertheless, people are quite quarrelsome and demand rights and the upper class to do their job right, so this in not quite the up/down-society that is depicted in movies and the like. b) I have pointed this out to the editors allready: "anti-Semitism" should be replaced by "anti-Judaism" which would be the correct term. Anti-Semitism is a concept based on racial inequality developed during the 19th century, while anit-Judaism is based on religion. The former leaves Jews no escape - you can always become baptized, but you can never change your "race"... c) The Church: One of the fun facts is, that there is not "one church", but many. While there is a certain central power (or one that believes that it is), it is hard to really enforce this. The archbishop of Trondheim never really cared about the pope, why should he? This is the reason why both heretics and reform movements (and the difference is quite a matter of definition, ask St. Francis) could endure quite a long time before officials would try to curb stuff. While Mythic Europe would certainly feel the presence of The Divine quite vividly, the question of how to interpret it, makes interaction with the Clergy fun - all the heretics are clergy man, because they are the only ones to really understand the doctrine (I have been told by Theologists that this is still true today...). d) Belief: We must believe that the majority people is not crazily religious in the 13th century. Again, this changes dramatically during The Plague in the 14th century. Peasants, by no means stupid, ignorant village idiots, know the basic truths about their religion, and we can assume some form of devoutness, but since mass is in Latin and most priests are not very well educated either, it is an open question if people really knew so much about church doctrine as we think they did. On the other hand, people knew their history, legends, stories of heroes, the Old Gods and the little fold, basics about the Romans and so on. So maybe they knew about religion than we think. Still, generally speaking, medieval history research assumes that "religiosity" was not very rigid amongst the majority of the population until the 1350s-1400s. e) The Earth is sphere - correct - thank you for this. They knew that it was a bool, goddamit :-) f) Marriage sacrament - correctly put during the time. Marriage is still a worldly contract during that time, although church tries to usurp that. I remember reading church court books of the late 13th century full of cases where men had forgotten that they had married after some time (and a lot of discussion about how a proper marriage vow should be worded. Is "I will never love somebody else" a marriage vow or not... just a side note). g) Ordination is the sacrament that turns a man into a priest -> no, into a cleric. As written latteron, a presbyter, or priest, is the highest of the three high orders. So, all are clerics and subject to their own order of law, the canon law, as stated further down. That also brings many entertaining complications to court cases we have in medieval time, like when a cleric kills a city burgher, and both the city and the church officials try to get control over the case. h) Towns - Yes, conditions in towns are not pleasant, but there are plenty of baths and people do wash themselves there, if they can. Plus, towns try to get rid of trash much like cities on southern Italy do: Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Sorry about my rant, but I hope the discussion might improve some sections of the chapter and I am quite willing to discuss stuff with the editors or other people here.

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